Author Topic: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?  (Read 3389 times)

Offline paulthetall

  • Administrator
  • Master Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 316
    • paulthetall.com / Portingkit.com
Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« on: November 08, 2017, 11:00:44 AM »
I see you thinking, wine dead in 18 months? Yeah, it's a very very good possibility (not joking here...) "What does that mean? How come? " Well, it's the decision of Apple, "no more compromise"....to go over to 64 bit only. That will start in High Sierra 10.13x (yeah where we are in now and where we already ran into bumps), and most likely end in 64bit only next year already!!. "Hey wait, you guys mentioned that you are working on 64-bit Wine app?".  Yep that's correct, but that doesn't solve the fact that the games are still 32-bit, and Apple won't accept 32-bit processes. This can't be fixed by using a 64-bit Engine and creating a 64-bit Wineskin app unfortunately.

"So all is lost?" Well we have little hope on a specific project called "hangover" which Codeweavers (yeah from Crossover) and the wine community started up to find a way to keep Wine working on Mac (64bit) using ARM Emulator (an emulator between the windows app and the real CPU that we can put in any mode) which is a building block and would still need a lot of work (if even proven "workable/not too slow") to be useful on the new Mac OS. There are maybe a few similar options, but also requires "emulation/virtualization" which means slow. So in short, there needs to come a solution (and I mean fast) but the "possible" (hope/pray)  alternatives takes a lot of time to implant. Alexandre Julliart isn't really mourning about that (and he shouldn't), because Apple is seems to be lost at this moment. It looks like everyone needs to adapt to the changes they make, we (wine(skin) community) had already to adapt 3 times already because of OS updates in the past years, and now it looks like they are about to give the final blow.

"So now what?" Well, thought about alternative solutions as well, and fell back to the same kind of solutions as Codeweavers comes with (emulation/virtualization) but then again you can even better put also VM's and bootcamp on your system, and that's not what we want.

So we are building hard on a Linux version of Porting Kit, so not all years we put in Porting Kit and into all the game ports, are lost. In that way we can still continue our vision on Linux, although  in that case it will end for Mac in OS 10.13x or maybe even 10.14x. It's not what we want, but Apple leaves is in that case no choice to abandon the sinking ship. For me if it comes that far that there is no solution for the 32-bit support drop, I will move over to Linux as well and we keep Porting Kit supported for Mac until OSX 10.14 and not above. Before it comes that far, let's first hope there will be a solution in these 18 months after all...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 12:17:37 PM by paulthetall »

Offline almeath

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 1
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2018, 04:51:40 AM »
Thanks for your insights on this topic. At this stage we have just over a year before Apple removes all 32 bit support in macOS 10.15. Things are looking quite desperate for legacy and retro gaming on the Mac given this move, along with the official deprecation of Open GL support.

I was wondering whether this project (albeit a proprietary one, and currently for Linux only) could have potential application for the Mac?:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/08/valves-steam-play-uses-vulkan-to-bring-more-windows-games-to-linux/

Offline vitormm

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 957
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2018, 01:11:15 PM »
It does. They even released a Mac version :)

However, while it does address the OpenGL issue, it does not solves the 32 bit problem.

Offline Franciscus

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 5
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2019, 06:42:56 PM »
Hi

I asked about this in the Crossover forum (https://www.codeweavers.com/support/forums/general/?t=27;msg=212891)

The answer by Henri Verbeet:

On the 32-bit side, I don't think I can give you much technical details, but I can say that it's something we're very actively working on, and we have good hope that we'll be able to make it work before Apple moves to exclusively 64-bit.

On the OpenGL side, while we think the deprecation of OpenGL by Apple is rather unfortunate, the plan is to introduce a Vulkan backend for wined3d (Wine's Direct3D implementation) post Wine 4.0, which on macOS we'd be able to use in combination with MoltenVK. That's not a secret, but not something we've been actively advertising either, so chances are you heard it here first. We did also explore a Metal backend for wined3d, but ultimately felt that MoltenVK worked sufficiently well that it wasn't worth the additional effort, since Vulkan works on Linux, Android and Chrome OS as well.


Let's wait...

Regards

Offline paulthetall

  • Administrator
  • Master Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 316
    • paulthetall.com / Portingkit.com
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2019, 06:42:25 AM »
Yup, since the start of the topic there has been some evolving of stuff as well on Porting Kit and on Crossover. We both work hard for some solutions, for Porting Kit this will mean we will split up Porting Kit for older games 32bit support "Porting Kit Classic" in a kind of Virtual machine with a mini Linux environment with Porting Kit intergration. (Yes that means Porting Kit will become also available for Linux first). And there will be the Native Porting Kit supporting 64bit and Directx11 in combination with Vulcan. More details will follow soon.

If someone is or you know someone with Linux program knowledge please contact us (Vitor in this case) so we can speed up the release. We are both drowning in Work at the moment also in private life.

Thanks guys.

Offline Atecheka

  • Gamer
  • ***
  • Posts: 26
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2019, 05:53:21 PM »
Hi Paul,

Does this mean I'll have to install two different PK on my Mac? Or will they be both available into a single PK?

Offline paulthetall

  • Administrator
  • Master Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 316
    • paulthetall.com / Portingkit.com
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 07:00:40 PM »
As far as it looks like 2. One for normal usage in 64bit and the other for 32-bit.

Offline Atecheka

  • Gamer
  • ***
  • Posts: 26
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 11:29:42 PM »
Hi Paul,

Thanks a lot for your response.

Will each PK (32 and 64) show the games they support in the server library? I mean, just to know if I can play a game like Maphia I or MOHAA on one or the other, just to make an example.

Dwayne

  • Guest
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2019, 07:25:58 AM »
Hi Paul

Any update on this? any new news? will there be an impact of performance if you have to use Linux to run the 32bit games?. Your software is amazing thanks for all your hardwork!

Thanks, Dwayne

Offline paulthetall

  • Administrator
  • Master Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 316
    • paulthetall.com / Portingkit.com
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 08:11:17 AM »
There is no news yet, then that we are busy with the plans. We also hope Apple is delaying their actions so we have some more time.

Offline SideshowZig

  • Newbie
  • **
  • Posts: 2
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 12:59:50 AM »
im just wondering if the key mapper thread is dead. im only asking because someone had messaged on there July of last year and never got a reply. feel free to delete this, im only posting here because like I said, I fear the key mapper thread is not being watched.

Offline vitormm

  • Developer
  • Administrator
  • Legendary Porter
  • *****
  • Posts: 957
Re: Future of wine on Mac.....Wine dead on Mac in 18 months?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2019, 01:50:46 PM »
im just wondering if the key mapper thread is dead. im only asking because someone had messaged on there July of last year and never got a reply. feel free to delete this, im only posting here because like I said, I fear the key mapper thread is not being watched.

Hey SideshowZig!

He was answered... you was just checking the first page only :P

EDIT: Also, I'm do taking a lot of time to answer that thread, since my personal life is consuming me lots of time xD